Nile-Rodgers

Exclusive: ‘I’m Comin Out!’ Nile Rodgers Opens Up About His Legend Career

He was a prominent force in the Disco movement. He helped shape Madonna’s career and Daft Punk’s re-launch. He’s been penning and performing gold and platinum level hits for longer than most EDM DJs have been alive. VIBE caught up with Nile Rodgers at this year’s IMS Ibiza where he was presented with a prestigious award at The Legends Dinner to talk EDM hate, writing pop songs and nuclear science...

VIBE: You’ve been writing, performing, touring your own and other people’s music for decades. What’s changed the most?
Nile Rodgers: Wow! That’s an opener! The one thing that’s changed the most is that we don’t sell as many records as we used to and that’s killing me! I was looking at Soundscan last week and there were all these records - big, known records that were sitting at 300,000, 250,000, total sales. The two records vying for first week top spot were at 110, and 111,000. Back in the day, you wouldn’t have even been on the charts.

Even new breakthrough acts?
Yeah! When I was a brand new man my first record was gold almost right out of the box. Up there in the charts, everyone was gold, everyone sold a million, million and a half, 800,000. Looking at Billboard rankings everyone had little gold circles or platinum diamonds by their name from the off.

Does that make it hard for you to contextualise your music now?
It always amazes me that my last album on Warner Brothers that came out in 1993, was a failure by my standards. If I had sold that record to day, I’d be number one. People would be bowing down! I sold 400,000 units in its first week. And that was a complete failure for me. With Chic - we were accustomed to selling 2, 3, million, Le Freak sold 6 million, Madonna sold 21 million, Bowie sold 11 or 12 million, So it’s weird for me to not thinking of record sales as your base number for which you measure your hit. Anything that’s under a million still doesn’t feel like it’s a hit to me.

But then there’s a difference between chart-topping pop and underground hits, right?
You know, when I was a young kid my music teacher told me - “Any record that’s a hit is a great composition.” I was like “What, even that bullshit bubblegum pop?” He said “Absolutely, because it spoke to the hearts, minds and souls to a million strangers.” How can you argue with that?

You’ve stood everywhere in the stage - instrumentalist, vocalist, writer - does each position ‘feel’ very different when you’re up there?
It’s all the same. The only thing that’s different is the difficulty factor. It’s easiest to just perform, it’s easy to do concerts, to do live shows, but that’s only after we’ve dealt with all the logistics of getting to that stage! But once we’re on that stage, and all the other stuff is dealt with, the performance process is always easy, natural.

You’ve written alone, you’ve collaborated, do you approach the two situations differently?
For me, it’s easiest to write and collaborate with someone else. I find it hard to compose in the solitary mode, because my mind is so active, and things that are seemingly mundane, absurd or ridiculous to other people are fascinating to me. A lemon peel, someone’s hair, mascara, eyeliner, I could write a song about eyeliner, or the things you’re trying to cover, and I could be so obsessive about it. That doesn’t make it commercial but it makes it as an artistic enterprise viable. I would start to research, then I’d start to rhyme.

Do you feel to the crowd’s relationship to artists is now different to what it was years ago?
It feels like it’s more exciting now. I don’t know why that is, maybe because I have a larger body of work, maybe because I’m not so afraid of failure- perhaps because I’ve learned to accept failure at a very high level, so I can honestly say I’m not afraid of screwing up.

But you’re an old hand at this - do you ever screw up now?
When I do screw up, I can roll with it: last summer we were playing with Jennifer Lopez, Lionel Richie, Eliza Doolittle, so there was this huge show and it was great - apart from our segment - where the sound system blew. 65,000 people facing us. The promoter was like “Come in, come in!” because the crowd were getting hostile but I was like “No way, if they’re booing, then I’m gonna stand here and let them boo me. I’m gonna give ‘em their money’s worth.” Then I realised the amps had overheated, but the monitors were working, so I hooked a mic to the monitor, strapped it to my guitar, turned it up and started singing our classics. It ended up being an amazing concert!

You had a series of successful disco EPs at the precise same time that there was an active and vocal ‘Disco Sucks’ movement in music. What do you make of the whole ‘EDM-hate’ movement?
I’m always amazed at people’s ability, or need - and it is a need I think - to say that it’s ‘them against us.’ I was never raised like that - probably because I was raised a hippy and my parents were beatniks, so we were much more like “We’re all in it together." People like the Beatles were all about “I and you and me and we” and I grew up believing that shit! I grew up feeling like I was part of this global community of people that were all in it together, it was never normal to say “oh so and so sucked tonight” - even if that’s what I privately thought.

Why do you think that people are happy to slam others now then?
It’s this inherent quality in people now to say “I like this, not that.” Alright already! Tell me the truth, if “Soulja Boy” dropped right now, would you not dance to it if your friends weren’t watching? The guilty pleasures like that that happen in this industry, I think if they were celebrated rather than dissed, it would be a cooler business, because we’re always so quick to say no. Secretly I think it’s a form of jealousy. I know I’d love to be clever enough to make a record like Soulja Boy, - I’m not that clever.

But you’ve wrote a lot of catchy songs though...is there a pop formula?
Well. People think I sat down and wrote “Freak Out”, but that’s not true. I wrote “Ah Fuck Off! Fuck Studio 24”, because I was pissed off that I wasn’t let in that night. Then when I realised the groove was happening, and we rewrote it and turned it into Freak Out. That’s how so many of these tracks happen for me - I’m a good rewriter, when I sense a groove. I’ve never been a good writer!

You wrote the official anthem to 2014’s IMS. How did that come together?
I was called by IMS co-organizer Ben Turner, this was in 2013. I was doing 125 concerts in 200 days. But I figured it’s easy - we’re gonna do the song, we’re gonna perform it once live. I’m not gonna be judged on it, or even if I am judged on it, it happens once, so I’m only judged once. Suddenly I’m working with Eats Everything, and there’s talk of auctioning off the track to charity, and now it’s 2014 and it’s huge and I’m nervous, like ‘Guys! What are we doing? We were just writing this for fun, right?!’

Where would you be now had you never been in music?
I’d have gone into science. In our days, we called it thermonuclear hydro-dynamics. That was my thing, in our clique at school we were trying to figure out how take nuclear energy, make it safe, and power the planet.

Nile Rodgers would’ve been a nuclear scientist?
You would not believe how many famous musicians were into this. My friend Reggie Lucas was in the same school, he was on Madonna’s album. He and Todd Rundgren developed the very first screensaver. My other partner, Tom Murray, he went on to invent all sorts of digital applications, way before laptops. I love science. As part of my charity, we brought in Gza from the Wu Tang to give a talk on magnetism and gravity.

What went wrong Nile?!
Back then, we all knew from a very young age the government weren’t going to use our research for good stuff!

word: Ally Byers

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Karol G On The Magic Of "Tusa," Working With Nicki Minaj And New Album

Karol G's devoted intentions have kept her ahead of the history books.

As Women's History Month comes to a close, the reggaeton titan solidified her position just weeks prior on Internation Women's Day as Spotify included her in their list of the Top 10 Most-Streamed Female Artists. Others included were Billie Eilish, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande in addition to iconic women of color like Nicki Minaj. But Karol's presence on the list proves just how she's been able to bridge the gap between Latin and pop music as the only woman on the list who primarily performs in Spanish.

It's something Karol, born Carolina Giraldo Navarro, has done since coming up in the male-dominated reggaeton scene. While plenty of her hits over the years have earned a coveted spot in the hearts of millions, it was her recent recording with Nicki Minaj that reminded everyone of her power.

"I grew up listening to her and we were sitting at the table across from each other," Karol says of "Tusa" and its insanely popular video that has 669 million views and counting on YouTube. "That was an iconic moment for me."

The song's title is Colombian slang for heartache after a breakup. On the regal reggaeton bop, Karol has Minaj rapping in Spanish as they promise to one another to eliminate those feels on the dance floor. The Tusa-terminators made history in late 2019 with the release as the song is the first collaboration by women to debut at No. 1 on the Billboard Hot Latin Songs chart.

On the all-genre Hot 100 chart, "Tusa" impressively peaked at No. 42. Amid the coronavirus outbreak, self-quarantines in Panama were recently singing the song together from their balconies.

¿Cómo lleva el #ToqueDeQueda Panamá? Pues que más que con @karolg y #Tusa #COVIDー19 #PTY #QuedateEnCasa pic.twitter.com/jSNsEeaoUW

— errol (@erscr) March 23, 2020

For Karol, success like this has been over a decade in the making since signing her first contract in 2006 under her G stage name. At that time, reggaeton music was reigning over the globe thanks to Puerto Rican rapper Daddy Yankee's "Gasolina" setting the movement ablaze in 2004.

The música urbana genre was very much a man's world with a few women who were able to rise to the level of Yankee like Ivy Queen, someone Karol cites as an influence. "With the urbano music I wanted to do, there were not a lot of women," she says. "I love urbano rhythms. They've always fascinated me."

In the early steps of her career, Karol took advantage of the art of collaboration with Nicky Jam on 2013's "Amour de Dos," Ozuna on "Hello" in 2016 and a budding rapper by the name of Bad Bunny on 2017's "Ahora Me Llama." Her method was mindful and direct as she gained new fans in every pocket of reggaeton's wide-ranging cloth.

"They had a big audience and following," she says. "The way I got my opportunity as an artist and was able to be heard more was, in part, thanks to them." Later that year, Karol's debut album Unstoppable landed at No. 2 on the Top Latin Albums chart.

As she became the feature queen in her own right, Karol dropped "Mi Cama" in 2018 which led to her winning the gramophone for Best New Artist at the Latin Grammy Awards that year. "I love to sing in reggaeton, but it's not the only thing I do," she says about her diverse palette. The spirited 2019 release of Ocean showcased the vastness of her artistry with urbano, reggae, and pop influences.

With "Tusa" previewing her third album, VIBE VIVA spoke with Karol about her musical journey so far and what's coming next.

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VIBE: On physical copies of Unstoppable, there's the #GirlPower stamp. What inspired you to include it? 

Karol G: I have that tattooed on one of my arms as well because for me, it was a frustration that people in the media were telling me, "You're a woman. You don't have anything to do here. You can't enter here." There are women that can achieve things around the world. That's where my motivation comes from: to show that we, and myself as a woman, can do it. That was important for me to put on the album to show my support for this movement.

"Mi Cama" became one of your biggest hits without a featured artist. What's the story behind that song?

I loved that song because it has the attitude that I feel right now. It's a song about a woman talking to her ex-boyfriend who left her for someone else. It has the attitude to keep going, to keep dancing, or perrear (a twerk-like dance associated with reggaeton). In Mexico, I was in a press conference and a female reporter said, "I don't respect how you as a woman are singing about your bed making noise. You have to think about the children." I said, "This isn't music for children." It's a song that's exaggerated. I'm not swearing on it. I always tell that story at my shows and people love it.

How did you feel to win the Latin Grammy for Best New Artist?

That's one of the top five moments in my career. I dreamed of that moment since I was a little girl. When I was nominated, that was huge. I didn't think I was going to win. When I won, my mind went blank. I took my dad on stage with me because he's been supporting me since the beginning. After winning the grammy, my mindset has been what else I can do in my career that's even bigger.

You have recorded a lot of music with your fiancé Puerto Rican rapper Anuel AA. How do you like working with him?

We're a super team. We complement each other well. We understand each other well because we've enjoyed many great moments together. We've gotten to travel together. We did a tour together. It's a beautiful thing. We keep each other focused and motivated with our feet on the ground.

What do you think about the reaction and all the memes around "Tusa"?

I felt in my heart the song would be successful, but I never thought that it would be a global hit. It opened doors for me in markets where I've never had songs hit before. It's charting in countries that don't speak Spanish like France, Italy, and Sweden. Seeing all the memes from the people has been muy brutal (Puerto Rican slang for "beyond awesome"). It's been incredible to see so many men connecting with it. To see all the people dancing and singing to it has been a surprise. I hope my next single will be like that, but for now, it's nice to enjoy what's happening with "Tusa."

Speaking of men, many gay men been bumping "Tusa" too. I was wondering if you had a message for your fans in the LGBTQ+ community.

I love having part of my following from that community. I love people who can go out into the world and be fearless. I'm very proud of that because the world really lacks people like that: people with personality, attitude, and a strong will. That's something I admire very much from that community. They have a beautiful energy.

What are your plans for the rest of this year?

I'm happy because I'm working on a lot of music. I've gotten great invitations to work on projects with other artists. Right now I'm collaborating with artists in the Latin and Anglo markets. There are songs that are coming out very soon. It's a year for expanding and globalizing my name. We have a tour in Latin America and one in Europe again. We're going to end the second semester of the tour in the US with the release of my next album.

What do you see for the future of women in reggaeton music?

There's things I hope to evolve a little more, but I feel like we knocked over the door. That we've come through and people are hearing us. People are coming to our concerts. Artists are inviting us to their shows. We're here. I try to stick up for myself more as a human being. We're all talented in our own ways. I feel like women are demonstrating that. It's an era where women are taking chances and going for bigger things.

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The1Point8

Thundercat Learns To Let Go

It’s an unseasonably warm day in Manhattan’s Lower East Side, balmy enough for locals to start thinking about grilled food and beaches, but cool enough to remind us it’s still winter. It’s mid-February; the thud of a global pandemic hasn’t hit the city just yet. People are still outside, milling around without masks, latex gloves, and pocket-sized bottles of hand sanitizer. Upstairs in the Sixty Les Hotel, Stephen “Thundercat” Bruner looks right at home, sitting on a loveseat in a red pullover hoodie, red patent leather sneakers, and leopard print Chanel earmuffs. His fingernails are painted purple, his eyes are hidden behind tinted glasses with big white frames. There’s a designer duffle bag by the window, the clothes inside it spill out across the counter. The intro of a 16-bit version of “Mortal Kombat” plays through a video game console in a loop on a wall-mounted TV.

The clothes and the room scream “Thundercat,” the iconoclastic bassist, producer, and vocalist from Los Angeles, who, in recent years, has worked with everyone from rappers Kendrick Lamar and Mac Miller, to singers Erykah Badu and Janelle Monae. Whatever the feature, you know Thundercat is there: his swift, fluttering basslines always cut through the arrangement, no matter the voice on top of it. The style of Thundercat’s solo music goes back 30-plus years—to a blend of funk, jazz fusion, and soul evoking the 1980s when luminaries like Zapp, Cameo, and The Gap Band were mainstream stars. Mix that with the headbanging vigor of hardcore punk and metal, along with the childlike joy of old Saturday morning cartoons, and you just might get to Thundercat’s sound. It’s complex like the man, though he’s never taken himself too seriously. Still, he’s evolved over the years, from producer Flying Lotus’ eccentric sideman to a headliner with big font on the marquee.

But today this is a different Thundercat—he’s equally reflective, profound and optimistic. As he walks through the making of his cathartic fourth LP, It Is What It Is, he’s honest about the bumpy road leading up to it, and how addiction nearly derailed his life. “I had to acknowledge that I was an alcoholic,” Thundercat says. “It doesn’t mean that you have to confess it over yourself, but it’s one of those things where, if you don’t do it, that’s what causes the poison to seep through you. Erykah [Badu] used to say to me, ‘You’ll stop when you’re tired.’ And I got tired. I realized it was the same thing over and over and it was fun for a long time. I wouldn’t drink to stay in the room. I’d drink to be on the Space Needle right now.” It Is What It Is follows Thundercat’s 2017 album, Drunk, a whimsical LP that trekked through the ups, downs, and residual effects of drinking. While the album found Thundercat navigating the absurdities of everyday life, it also provided a glimpse into the artist’s own challenges. “I was there around Drunk and he was literally drunk,” says friend, producer, and collaborator Mono/Poly. “He told me that the times I thought he was there, he said he was still blacked out. He said he would drink to the point where it wasn’t the same Steve. It was literally a different person.”

***

The genesis of Thundercat’s solo career dates back to 2010, to a song called “MmmHmm,” where he played bass and sang lead on one of Lotus’ most popular tracks. Thundercat then released his debut album, The Golden Age of Apocalypse, a lean, mostly instrumental set of rubbery funk jams and evocative jazz fusion. Through songs like “For Love (I Come Your Friend)” and “Walkin’,” he came off like a new-age Jaco Pastorius, an emerging talent bringing light to an instrument meant to stay in the background. His sophomore album, 2013’s Apocalypse, signaled his breakthrough: powered by the MDMA-loving ode “Oh Sheit It’s X,” Thundercat became a star in underground circles and a fave amongst crate-digging music nerds. But there was a dark cloud hanging above the album: before its completion, his friend and collaborator, pianist Austin Peralta, died of viral pneumonia aggravated by drugs and alcohol. The record’s latter half dwelled on his passing. The album’s closer, “A Message for Austin…,” was a somber goodbye to one of L.A.’s most promising musicians. A 2015 EP, The Beyond / Where The Giants Roam, examined death from the void. “Where’s this cold, dark place?” he sang from the imagined perspective of a soul in purgatory. “This must be the end / Time to shed some skin.” A year later, Thundercat won a Grammy for Best Rap/Sung Performance for his work on “These Walls,” one of several stellar tracks from Lamar’s groundbreaking sophomore album To Pimp a Butterfly. Thundercat was a major player on the LP, producing or adding vocals and bass to 10 of its 16 songs. He was part of a cohort of musicians who gave Butterfly its lush jazz aesthetic.

A different spirit looms over It Is What It Is, that of beloved rapper Mac Miller, who died in 2018 of an accidental drug overdose. He and Thundercat had become close friends in recent years, and others say Miller’s death was a catalyst for Thundercat changing his diet and getting sober. “It was so quick,” Mono/Poly recalls. “I saw him after a few weeks and he was just skinny and shi*t. Then he told me later on, he was like, ‘I couldn’t eat. My girlfriend broke up with me, Mac died, I was forced to change.’ He said it was literally because of all those events happening to him that he felt differently.” As a result, It Is What It Is feels more serious than Thundercat’s previous LPs; it contemplates personal losses from somewhere in the cosmos. Featuring Childish Gambino, Lil B, Ty Dolla $ign, and Zack Fox, it’s subdued and more mature than Drunk, which tackled adult themes through LOLs and tongue-in-cheek songwriting. This album strips the veneer and dives right into the anguish. “Just need some sort of sun,” he yearns on “Lost In Space / Great Scott / 22-26.” Then on songs “King of the Hill” and “Unrequited Love,” Thundercat leans further into the breakup that partially fueled his evolution, looking inward and outward to assess how the whole thing dissolved. On the former, he shuns blame: “Say you ain’t got time for games … just admit you don’t know what to do.” On the latter, he laments: “Nothing feels the same ‘cause there’s no one like you.” But like any Thundercat release, the album has comedic moments that lighten the mood. “Dragonball Durag” is a body rolling slow jam with a subtle shout to his cat (it wouldn’t be a Thundercat album without one). “I may be covered in cat hair,” he sings, “but I still smell good.” The song is also quite literal. “It’s about finding a f**king Dragonball durag,” Thundercat says with a laugh. “You gotta search for sh*t like that. I lost my mind and bought all of them so nobody else could buy ‘em. It’s like anime nerd sh*t, ya know? The joy of finding a Dragonball durag for me was like, ‘There’s nothing better to end this moment ever.’”

The song “I Love Louis Cole” unpacks a weird night: during a hangout with Cole, Thundercat allegedly punched the producer’s friends before falling asleep on some laundry in his room. “We really do have such a nice time when we hang out,” Cole writes in an email to VIBE. “[We] get into deep conversations or watch weird videos or record together. My verse in the song is about real-life events that have happened when he’s come to my parties.” But that’s just Thundercat being Thundercat: Mono/Poly remembers a time when the bassist bought a 7-Eleven hot dog en route to a vegan cafe. “He doesn’t finish it fully,” Mono/Poly says. “Then we go to SunCafe and a waitress comes up and he has this f**king 7-Eleven hot dog in his hand, and she’s like, ‘Do you want me to throw that away?’ I was just dying, like, it’s typical Steve sh*t.” Funk legend Steve Arrington appears on lead single “Black Qualls” as a guiding light through Thundercat’s fear of prosperity. In an interview, Arrington says he’s long been a fan of Thundercat’s ability to bend genres while giving a distinct flair to the bass. “Not only does he have the dexterity and the ability to play what he thinks, he’s a new voice,” Arrington says. “I look at him as a guy like Herbie Hancock and others who were tremendous voices on their instruments and then developed their own artistry. I think Thundercat is that for today.”

***

Midway through the album’s title track, drifting from airy ambiance to stampeding percussion, Thundercat salutes Miller before letting the melody fade into the clouds. “Hey Mac,” he says softly, Miller’s voice rising in response. It was his way of saying farewell to a dear friend. “Mac’s death was traumatizing,” Thundercat admits. “It was really painful because I’ve seen it happen before. Me and Mac became friends on the back of Austin Peralta dying. With Mac dying, I genuinely got angry and sad. I was heartbroken. I started slowing down [on the drinking] before his death. The album is called It Is What It Is because it doesn’t get any easier. I just try to cherish the moments I had with him.”

Ultimately, It Is What It Is scores two transitions—Thundercat’s and Miller’s. It finds Thundercat dismissing destructive habits for a more enlightened reality. It’s also his way of honoring a friend who’d want him to keep going. As he discussed Miller, his breakup, and his music, Thundercat seemed incredibly vulnerable, his spirit becoming lighter as the conversation unfolded. In years’ past, maybe he’d deflect with a joke, but because he’s gone through so much, maybe it’s time to fully embrace the hardship. “I learned that sometimes you gotta let go. I learned that it just hurts,” Thundercat says. “You can pray for guidance through these moments, but sometimes it’s just meant to stick to you. I learned that it is what it is.”

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Erik Umphery

Meet Ebenezer, The Crooner Poised To Restore Soul Into Modern R&B

Ebenezer is a man of few words but the purveyor of a million feels throughout his music. Before the novel coronavirus left the singer-songwriter isolated in Los Angeles, the London-born artist was at the VIBE office in New York a few moons ago playing his latest project, Bad Romantic 2.

A few laughs fill the room but what really takes over is the boptastic tune "3 am in London." With a sample from Kandi Burruss's 2000 release "Don't Think I'm Not," we get a look into his creative process. After revealing his origin story in 2018 with 53 Sundays, Ebenezer returned with the Bad Romantic series. It's a title bestowed to him by the many women he's dated. As a songwriter, engineer, producer, and composer for himself a slew of other artists like Jeremih, Ty Dolla $ign, A Boogie wit da Hoodie, Stefflon Don, K-Pop faves SuperM and Craig David, love seemed to slip through the cracks. 

"I always try to make time," the crooner insists. He might not get love right all the time, but his determination to enrich modern R&B is a sword he's willing to fall on. While sharing stories behind cuts from Bad Romantic 2, a grin comes across his face as every tale is connected to love lost.

"It wasn't like there wasn't any lack of effort. It's just the way my schedule worked," he said about the making of "Flexible," a track bound to lead a quiet storm playlist. "I remember working so hard at the time that I was sleeping in the studio. I didn't have any money to go home [to London] so I had to work until something gave. I would mention how difficult it was but maybe she didn't understand the hustle or the grind at the time."

His hard work led to his latest single, "Flaws And All." The track speaks of his efforts to make love work no matter what, a notion anyone can relate to. As we continue to talk about love, one thing is for certain–Ebenezer is in love with creating. His eyes light up while breaking down each track and his shoulders ease up when he speaks about his versatility. In addition to the world hearing Bad Romantic 2, he's used social distancing to produce songs via his "Quarantine Studio Sessions."

 

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A post shared by Ebenezer (@ebenezersworld) on Mar 27, 2020 at 10:56am PDT

Below, get to know a little more about the elusive artist, the making of Bad Romantic 2 and some of his biggest inspirations.

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VIBE: With you producing at a young age, did you have support from your family?

Ebenezer: I'm a London boy but my parents are originally from Nigeria. They were on the run from immigration at one point but after things calmed down there was a big focus on education. They were like, "No you, can't. Education first." There would be big arguments and fights but eventually, I chose music. Or maybe it chose me? I started working and producing while on the phone with artists and things came together.

But I owe everything to my mum because she is the biggest cheerleader I've ever had. This woman had three kids and did everything to get by. She held it down. I had cousins who called immigration on us and they're supposed to be family–immigration comes kicking open the door and raiding the house. So I believe that the blessings I'm getting now are from God and our prayers.

What do you enjoy the most: producing/engineering or writing? 

I don't know if I can choose. I just use different parts of my brain for producing and writing. It is fun to split them up and bring them together at times.

What's your voice in R&B today? 

From childhood to the present, I've been in piece of s**t relationships and my songs reflect that. It's not be being vindictive to my exes. I take full responsibility for the things I've done and I try to be honest as I can in my music. The worst thing I could do is be one-sided.

There's that aspect of accountability missing in R&B these days so I get it. How is creating R&B-pop music for K-Pop artists? You worked with SuperM recently and it seems like they really enjoy the era of 2000s R&B. 

It's easier because they let you do whatever you want. You want a variety of harmonies because there's a lot of people in one group. But I like creating for K-Pop artists because you're able to let every individual stand out and have their own moment. It's dope they're adopting that sound.

Who are some of your inspirations? 

Kanye West for sure. My brother was a big hip hop head so I grew up on Rakim, Big L, Big Pun, Tupac, Biggie, Jay Z, Wu-Tang, but my decade has the Drakes and the Kanyes, so they were my biggest inspirations. College Dropout was the album that had me say, "I'm doing this music thing, I don't care."

My sister is a big R&B fan. She played a lot of Jagged Edge, Jodeci, stuff like that. So I was lucky to have the hip hop side and the R&B side presented to me all at once.

In addition to love and relationships, what else drives your creative process? 

It comes in stages for me. I like to make projects with a theme. For example, 53 Sundays was a project about growing up in London as an immigrant and the adversity we experienced racism and gang violence. It's how I overcame it and how my family dealt with it.

There's a lot of self-love in those songs because nothing is free, especially coming from having nothing. You have the Bad Romantic projects that are pretty self-explanatory in the title [Laughs]. I'm going to make it all tell a story so when you look back at the projects, it's a timeline and you'll see who I am.

What makes a "Bad Romantic and a "Good Romantic?" 

My exes are bad romantics. [Laughs]

So it's their fault? 

Nah, my exes would say there are some things that I'm good at and some things I'm terrible at. There are different love languages and what someone may require, I might not speak it. I like to provide gifts because growing up with nothing, you never want to see anyone without.

But I struggle with time because I'm always working and they had it. I have this thing called "The Okay Attitude." You can write me a novel in a text and I'll say, okay. Life expectancy for us is low as it is and we spend most of our time arguing about trivial things so if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

And a "Good Romantic?"

Being attentive, caring, not being so selfish. I don't know, everyone is different. Some people require a lot. They say, "Shower me with gifts." But others say, "I just want your time, whenever you can afford it."

Unfortunately, I can't afford it.

What do you want listeners to get from your music?

That I'm just a bad romantic that's trying to better himself.

Stream Bad Romantic 2 here.

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