Nas, Nicki Minaj, Drake and Trey Songz at Summer Jam 2014

The Wins And Fails Of Summer Jam 2014


Troy Ave’s Summer Jam screen
Sevyn Streeter’s and Trey Songz’s Chris Brown tributes
The G-Unit reunion

August Alsina’s spazz-free set
Snoop and Wiz Khalifa’s on-stage smoke session
T.I. joining Troy Ave
L.O.X., M.O.P., and Dres of Black Sheep during The Roots' set
Nas and 50 Cent’s on-stage embrace

50 Cent, Nas, G-Unit and Fabolous all on stage together
Nicki Minaj’s shirt/pasty ensemble
Nicki Minaj endorsing Lil’ Herb
Nicki and Drake’s PDA


All the sound issues
The crowds under-appreciation of DJ Mustard’s set
Rihanna being in attendance, but not coming on stage

Chris Brown being released from prison the day after
Slow Bucks’ spazz-out during 50 Cent's performance
The crowd’s reaction (or lack thereof) to Iggy Azalea
Cutting Jhene Aiko's set short
Trey Songz’s vocals
50 Cent: “Niggas thought Jimmy Iovine was my boss […] I ain’t got no fuckin’ boss”
Oh yeah, and all the sound issues

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Stacy-Ann Ellis

Meet Afro B, The UK Artist Whose Hit Song "Joanna" Put Him Atop The Afrobeats Wave

Afro B is tired. Or at least, he’s got to be with the nearly gap-free schedule that’s been carved out for him this week. It’s a brisk Friday in February, and while he’s chummy upon arrival at VIBE’s Midtown office, the London-raised Afrobeats artist with deep Ivory Coast roots is trying to keep his energy level up.

He hasn’t stopped running around since he landed in New York a day or so ago, already hitting a bevy of popular local radio stations. And that’s to say nothing of the rest of the stops he has to make before preparing for his 3 a.m. performance alongside Funkmaster Flex at Brooklyn’s Milk River tonight. Well, tomorrow. Yeah, R.I.P. to that sleep schedule.

But why nap when you’re running off the high of a world finally catching wind and diving into the genre of music he’s long held close to heart? A DJ by trade, the man born Ross Bayeto has always been plucking and curating songs for his listeners to really move to, but now when it’s his own music? Game over.

“I call it Afrowave, just a wave of what's happening at the moment,” he says of the rise of Afrobeats music and his rapidly rising place in it. It’s been a full year since his banner song, “Drogba (Joanna),” hit the airwaves, but there’s virtually no way to tell. Based on how fired up the dance floors of the U.S., UK, African countries and beyond get when it comes on, the song hasn’t aged a bit. It still sounds as fresh as when it first rang out in London clubs. Afro B knows better than anyone that there’s no expiration tag on a vibe, especially when the music ignites a new moment every time it reaches a new international border.

“This song has lasted long, long and it's still lasting,” he says. “But it's just touching. The world is a big place, so it's just hitting people that haven't heard it yet. I just have to keep going.”

With “Joanna” under his belt and another potential hit on the way ("Shape Nice," a new collaboration with Vybez Kartel and Dre Skull drops on Feb. 25), it’s now about maintaining that momentum, riding that wave into the next level of his career, and representing the sweet sounds of the culture he loves so much. “If I'm standing for Africa and the culture,” he says, “I need to push what's going on inside it.”


VIBE: Tell me a little bit about what brings you to New York. Afro B: For 10 years, I've been pushing this Afrobeats genre and African music and the culture. I had a [DJ] residency at a club called NW10 [in London] and they predominantly played dancehall music and R&B. So, it's kind of hard to break free because I only have sets that would last for 5-10 minutes, or two songs in and the crowd's not dancing because they're not used to what I'm playing. As time went on and we're getting big records from Wizkid and stuff, that's when more people warmed up to it, and, yeah I'm here today. I made the transition from the DJ to an artist five years ago. I made the hit “Joanna,” and that's what brought me to this club world, to New York.

Were people hesitant at first when you were like, "okay, I'm not DJing anymore?" Yeah, of course. ‘Cause people are used to me just shutting down the clubs, making it lit inside. But then they're like, "oh why are you making music, why are you leaving this behind?" At first, I was the DJ making music, now I'm the artist that can DJ. Every week I got a rager show. An Afrobeats rager show that's promoting it every Saturday, 11 p.m. until 1 [a.m.].

What made you want to decide to be an artist? Specifically, an Afrobeats artist? When I was growing up I always listened to African music and I used to play keys in church. So, yeah. The typical story. African music has always been in the blood. I've always been proud about being African and just promoting where I'm from. That's definitely the reason.


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Following God’s lead that’s all. 🙏🏾🏆🇨🇮

A post shared by Afro B 🇨🇮‪ (@afrob__) on Jan 23, 2019 at 10:53am PST

Can you break down Afrobeats for those who are unfamiliar? It's easy to just say anyone of African descent making similar music is doing Afrobeats, but maybe that's not the case. Can you break down if there are any distinctions surrounding the genre? Sub-genres like Afropop? Afrobeat without the “s”? Right now it's a bit confusing because there's so many elements merged into one thing. You could hear a track and hear like a dancehall melody in there with a hip-hop hook or the straight-authentic African. So, it's hard to pinpoint where exactly it is, but Afrobeats is the name we're giving it. But Afrobeat without the "s" is more traditional, then over time the sound just started to evolve and evolve, now it is what it is today.

Are people open to it being called or labeled Afrobeats? It's mostly the Nigerians that always have a debate on what we should call something. Yeah, most people are familiar with just calling it Afrobeats. I call it Afrowave, just a wave of what's happening at the moment. I still call it Afrobeats at the same time. Wave is my thing. That's my brand. Just a wave of what's happening at the moment, the new school kind of African sound.

So who else would you put in the Afrowave category? Wizkid, Davido, Burna Boy—Burna Boy bounces from dancehall sometimes. There's a lot of UK artists doing that sound, like mixing rap with Afrobeat melodies and dancehall. There’s an artist called J Hus. Kojo Funds. Yeah, there's so many names, man. And the Ghanaian artists as well. There's even a whole French scene that's crazy as well, but they call it Afrotrap, which is more uptempo. Then you got the Angolans and South Africans that have their house vibes. There's a lot of different angles. We should just call it African music but Afrobeats is what the majority call it, the English speakers call it.

Let's talk about the song I got to know you for: “Joanna.” Or “Drogba.” Who is that? He's an icon from my country, Ivory Coast. He used to be a top soccer player—we say football—who used to play for a team called Chelsea and he had incredible impacts. Everyone from my country just saw him as a hero because you know he was representing us. So, in African music, there can be a lot of shout outs towards different people that are making noise or have a lot of money or whatever. There will be artists that will shout out politicians, footballers, maybe NBA players or just random female names like what I did with Joanna.

Yeah, I was about to say, who is Joanna? What does she have to do with anything? We concentrate more on the vibe than the lyrics. When I was in the studio, I was putting more the melodies first and then picking out the words that I thought I could hear. Joanna's what I picked out. Do you want me to explain the lyrics? So "your busybody" means there's a lot going on. “Your busybody busy tonight/Joanna don't leave me outside. Your busybody giving me life." Yeah, that's it. And then, "how you going to play me like Drogba," and that's kind of a metaphor ‘cause he plays soccer. Don't play me like how he did. Don't play with my feelings, you know what I mean?

Why do you think that now it seems that the U.S. is catching up to songs like “Joanna”? Usually we’re late to the international party. Yeah, I released it this time last year. Last year, I took multiple trips here [to New York], just making the most out of it when I was out here. Pushing the song, going to different shows and just drilling it into people's heads. So amongst the African community here that were bringing me out here, it was popping amongst us. I think now it's gotten to a point they did word of mouth to the mainstream people. And now, yeah, now it's picking up here. It's gotten to a point where it's hitting different territories and then it's fresh there. Then it's just like a brand new song again.

Do you think it's necessary to come in and put in that groundwork? I feel that social media's good, but when they see you in person, it's something else. It's feeding your energy, connecting with you, and just getting a better understanding of what it is. When I was coming up, it was a few people calling it reggae and dancehall and then I had to correct them. "This is Afrobeats," and I was showing them different artists and my other songs so that they get a better understanding of what is.

That seems like your DJ sensibility kicking in, too. Working it into the crowd. You just understand the crowd. Yeah, and then it just builds up from there. And also another thing that helps, I attached a dance challenge to it, mainly on Instagram. That was the #DrogbaChallenge, and the craziest thing is, a lot of people that got involved with the challenge were not African. So I was getting Colombians doing the dance, Indian, Dubai, people from out here [in the U.S.]. That gave me an indication that this tune is actually spreading like wildfire. Let me just keep pushing the challenge to see how far it goes. And even after now, I'm still getting videos of people dancing to the song, so that was like a way to market and make it spread.

Where's the craziest place that you've seen your song or your work appreciated? I think it was at an NBA game. I'm not sure what game it was, but just to see the DJ play it. It was a [Dallas Mavericks] DJ Poizon Ivy that played it. And then she just sent me the video, but I didn't know it at the time. She played it during the break time and just ran the tune. That was a big moment.

What songs do you think paved the way for this global movement that Afrobeats is having? The first one I recall is Dbanj’s collab with Kanye West. That opened doors. I think that Snoop Dogg did a song with Dbanj as well, but that didn't impact as much as the one he did with Kanye. That was called “Oliver Twist.” There’s an artist from the UK called Fuse [ODG], he had more impact in that, the European and the Middle East and the UK as well. So he has songs called “Azonto” and “Antenna.” Obviously, the cosigns from Drake as well with “One Dance,” and I think Beyonce posted a couple clips and had like Afrobeat music in the background. Little things like that are just helping it elevate. And Ed Sheeran’s "Shape of You" had some African influences so, that was helping it come from underground to mainstream. Just getting cosigns from the major artists.

What does it feel like when you as an international artist see your music get bigger than where you're from? It's crazy because it's gotten to a point when I'm not surprised a celeb is vibing to the song because people that I grew up listening to are vibing to it as well. So I was like, damn. The other day I received a clip of Trey Songz singing it on the mic, I think he was hosting a club night. Ashanti. It was Cardi B in the background, and her sister was vibing to it. And they're fully posting it on their main page and stuff. 50 Cent's son as well. I use it as an indication to show me that, I should keep pushing it because it could get to a serious level. ‘Cause I think the issue is that they give it a certain time, then they'll just move onto the next song and then they don't let the song that could potentially blow up everywhere enough time to grow. Like I said, [“Joanna”] came out this time last year, I'm still pushing the same song. And I’ve only dropped two songs. Well, two songs with a remix in between. That's it. Add more to the fire.

So you're letting it cook. Because attention spans are so short now, that I think people are scared. But that's what's crazy. This song has lasted long, long and it's still lasting. But it's just touching. The world is a big place, so it's just hitting people that haven't heard it yet. There's large amounts of people, I just have to keep going basically.

Do you think it's necessary to have a cosign? It helps it, it helps speed up the process. It going from underground to mainstream. And it also makes a listener who's not used to the sound warm up to it or accept it. Whereas before if it wasn't cosigned by these people, nothing worked. "What the hell is this?" And then just continue listening to whatever they listen to. So, it is kind of important to get those cosigns from major people or major influences for sure.


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@treysongz singing Drogba (Joanna) 🔥🔥 See the joy! This is mad mad mad #AfroWave

A post shared by Afro B 🇨🇮‪ (@afrob__) on Dec 29, 2018 at 2:14am PST

Some Afrobeats songs will be in English, then weave in native language or dialect slang. Do you think there's a way for songs to still have a huge impact globally and really connect without incorporating English? I don't think so, ‘cause I think people need to connect somehow. And I feel that they connect through the lyrics as well as the vibe. The vibe is always there, but if they can understand what's going on, what the artist is saying, what message the artist is trying to send, then they can connect with it more. That's why I feel that “Joanna” works because 95 percent of it is in English. Then there's a bit of Pidgin, a bit of French.

Are there people you'd like to collaborate with down the line, both within the Afrobeats space and then outside of it? Inaudible. Within, I’ve already ticked off who I wanted to collaborate with, which is Wizkid. He did the remix to “Joanna.” Vybez Kartel was in the wish list as well, so, I've ticked that. That's on the way. American-wise: Drake, Swae Lee, Tory Lanez, the melodic people that can add to the vibe. I grew up listening to 50 Cent, Akon. All of the melodic people. I think these days people prefer vibes more than lyrics because right now, there’s a lot of mumble rapping. We don’t know what’s happening, but it sounds lit, innit? Instrumentals are right. Young Thug is an example. He sounds wavy, but we don’t know [what he’s saying].

I looked at your video for your song, “Melanin.” Shout out to you for casting those all those shades of black women. What is it that you love most about the black woman? Everything, man. Everything. I feel like I want to promote them, put them in the forefront, because watching a lot hip-hop videos or whatever, they don't promote the black woman. They'll promote all these models and whatever, Instagram models, but they're not promoting the black African beauty. And if I'm standing for Africa and the culture, I need to push what's going on inside it.

Who do you make your music for? Who do you have in mind when you're creating your music? Everybody. Global. I just want to promote the culture, give them an insight. Shine a good light towards Africa, because I feel like when people think about it, they just think it's poor. If you’ve noticed, for a lot of music videos, they always go to the streets, the projects or whatever, to shoot a video. Like, there's other parts, you know. They always do it. I think the Americans do it the most. I think, "why are you always going there?" Omarion's video, he's in the middle of nowhere, he's in a tribe, and I'm thinking, we're not like that. We're normal people! At the end of the day, everyone's African. We understand each other. The only difference is probably our accents, at times, but you know, there's poor people in America. There's poor people everywhere. We're all the same. But, I don't know, sometimes people think there's a difference between African American and Africans, when that isn't the case. I just wanted to add that, that everyone's one. They should be together. Unity. That's what I stand for.

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Meet John Henry, Host Of VICELAND's New Business Show 'Hustle'

John Henry is a hustler. The 26-year-old, born to Dominican parents and raised in Harlem, knows the right thing to say at the perfect time. His uncanny ability to maneuver in different settings paired with his innate business acumen has catapulted him from a doorman to a part-owner of Harlem Capital, a company designed to invest in businesses created by women and minorities.  

At 18, Henry’s entrepreneurial journey started when a resident of the Brooklyn building where he worked took notice of his intellect and vibrant personality. The tenant owned a dry-cleaning business and offered Henry a chance to make money if he contracted clients for his venture. Eventually, he would end up making the larger part of the profits. This small start led him to develop Mobile City, a dry-cleaning service that winded up catering to Hollywood’s most prominent television and film sets. His first big break in Tinsel Town was in the costume department for The Wolf of Wall Street. He ended up landing more contracts within entertainment, which led him to drop out of community college to solely focus on his company. Since then, he’s sold the business for an undisclosed hefty amount.

“I understood early on that the real money wasn’t the $14 an hour that I was making — the real currency was the people that were there,” Henry tells VIBE. “I had a very people focus approach very early on. When people see something in someone they want to help them out, so there was this one resident in particular, a Boricua guy, who told me, 'You’re too fu**ing smart to be behind the desk, you can have your own doorman. Don’t settle for being the doorman.'”

Now, with his new VICELAND show titled Hustle (executive produced by Alicia Keys and Marcus Samuelsson), Henry sounds like a seasoned vet who’s an owner of five Fortune 500 companies while mentoring the entrepreneurs featured on the eight-episode show. He uses terms like Riches n Niches, Brand Equity, and Biz Def to break down his strategy on helping these businesses go from unknown status to mainstream lucrative ubiquity.

On the first episode, viewers meet Ashley Rouse, the owner of Trade Street Jam, a company that sells $12 vegan jams made out of fruit with low sugar. During the episode, Henry persistently attempts to coax Ashley into quitting her 9 to 5 job to focus on her business. According to a recent interview with XO Necole, Rouse did leave her corporate job.

Amid hosting Hustle and being a part-owner of Harlem Capital, Henry also owns a real estate business and owns 17 apartments in two buildings in Allentown, Penn., Fortune reports. “The sky is the limit” is definitely an understatement when it comes to Henry’s work ethic and drive.

Here, VIBE chatted with him about how he hustled his way to Hustle.


VIBE: How did you come up with the idea of a dry-cleaning business at 18, and then get Hollywood clients off it? John Henry: I didn’t come up with the idea for the dry cleaner. I didn’t come up with the idea for a lot of stuff that I’ve done, which is interesting because we’re made to feel like an entrepreneur is someone who has this brilliant idea — and sometimes that’s true, but, more often than not, it’s just a matter of making something out of what’s presented to you.

And here’s what I mean: this resident already owned a dry cleaner. That’s how he made his money. He said, “John, I own this dry-cleaning facility. I don’t have much in this world, but I have this. You go and make something out of it. Convince anyone, I don’t care who it is, go out there and hustle and convince someone to give you their clothes. And if you bring this to me, I’ll clean them for wholesale rate. You charge the market rate and you make the spread.”

So in other words, a suit would cost you $12 to dry clean, it would cost me $4 so I would make the $8 spread. So I was like "Ok.” Eight dollars a piece isn’t much money, but if you’re talking 100 pieces it’s looking much better or 1,000 pieces that’s even better than that. Immediately, I fell in love with the idea that in entrepreneurship the results are really in your hands because no matter how much I open that door, my income was capped as a doorman. Whereas being an entrepreneur it was all up to me.  

To answer your question on how I got started in Hollywood, that also wasn’t my idea. I started promoting my business, so one of the residents in the building told me “I’m in film/TV, we need someone to do our dry cleaning because we shoot at three in the morning and no dry cleaner is open at that time.”

Obviously, he’s like, “What time do you get out.” And I was like, “At 11.” He picked me up, took to me to set of what became my first film account, which was The Wolf Of Wall Street. I was fortunate they gave me a chance. I did well with it. And then he said, "There is a new account. I’m going to introduce you.” That new account was Boardwalk Empire, and Law & Order: A Person Of Interest. Then I went on to do White Collar and Ninja Turtle. I quit my job. I dropped out of college and I really went for this full time.

How did your parents take you dropping out of college? As immigrant parents, they came here and they always had this vision of us being a doctor or a lawyer. They were definitely not thrilled when I told them that I was going to leave school and that I was going to start a business. They were like, “Alright what business?” I said, “Dry cleaner.” They were like, “What?!” because my father was actually a presser growing up. They felt like, “Dude we didn’t come here so you can take a step back, we want you to take a step forward.” But they didn’t understand at the time that it wasn’t about the industry, it was about ownership. That’s the first time I ever really owned anything and now they are my biggest fans. They came around but it took them a little while.   

Did you handpick the contestants on Hustle? VICE gives me a lot of creative liberty. We have a casting company that spreads the word and gets hundreds of applications. Then they’ll do all that part for me and boil it down to like maybe five or 10 finalists per episode. And then I choose who I get most excited by. I drive what happens in the episodes. It’s my vision for how the entrepreneur should grow their business. I told them early on that it would be hard for me to work with a business that didn’t fascinate me. With Ashley, for instance, I hand chose her and I was really adamant about working with her. Every business in the whole season you’ll see was hand selected by me and I was very excited to work with each one of them.

Did you come up with the three business models presented on the show: Riches n Niches, Biz Def and Brand Equity? Do you use them in your own business approach? That section of the show we call Biz Pod. It’s something we came up with. I’m glad you asked because it was kind of a funny story of how that whole device came to be. We were shooting the pilot and I’m so engulfed in my own world that I’m not even noticing when I’m using business lingo. I keep saying we have to biz def or we have to build brand equity. Those are not terms that I made up, but those are terms that are used in business, that maybe are not commonly used outside of business. My director was like, “John what the hell is biz def?” Then Ashley was like, “What’s biz def?” That’s when we realized there is an opportunity here to actually educate the viewer.

We really fell in love with this idea of producing the show around showing an authentic look at entrepreneurship and along the way educate the viewer on some key terms that we think they should take away. That’s kind of how we came up with that little device that ended up being called biz pods. I choose all the terms as well. My director and I go back and forth on what we feel is the best biz pod for the episode and then we take it from there.

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Take 30 secs to watch this. ⠀ . ⠀ I’ll say say this ‘til im blue in the face... if it ‘clicks’ for even 1 person it was worth it. ⠀ . ⠀ It’s not the idea... it’s the bravery to act on that idea. ⠀ . ⠀ Now go and get it. 💪🏾 ⠀ . ⠀ #entrepreneur #IdeasAreEasy #ExecutionIsEverything #founderlife #startup #afrotech #one37pm

A post shared by John Henry (@johnhenrystyle) on Dec 11, 2018 at 5:19am PST

On the show, you speak with a lot of conviction about the decisions you think must be made in order to achieve success. Were you always this confident or was this a muscle you had to develop? Definitely a muscle I had to develop. The more time you spend in the arena, the more confident you become in your own abilities. But also, the more self-awareness you develop. I have no problem saying, “I’m being too stubborn,” or taking a step back and saying, “I think I’m wrong here.” But one thing I did learn over the years is when you’re in the driver’s seat you have to be careful because sometimes people come with interests that are not aligned with yours. That is a learned skill that comes with time.

What are some challenges that you’ve faced in your career? So many. For starters, I would say one of my biggest challenges was figuring out how the whole machine works. The reason why I’m really passionate about the show is because we get a chance to offer a glimpse to people about the fundamentals of building a business, like the basic building blocks because if you grow up in an affluent neighborhood you kind of have examples, role-models, support networks, all around you at any given time.

If you have a question about taxes you have an uncle that’s an accountant, or your auntie that’s a lawyer or something like that. Growing up in The Heights, in any underserved low-income community, that infrastructure does not exist so the hardest part that took me years to learn was how the whole game works. I’m talking about how the whole machinery works.

How does business affect a community? How does real estate affect a community? How does politics affect business? All these pieces that seem kind of separate are actually very closely interconnected. And it took me probably five or six years to really develop a macro perspective. Now that I have that framework I really feel like I can go on and do anything. So that’s the same understanding that I really want to impart on people both through my personal efforts like the content I create on Instagram and obviously something like the show.

Dominicans make good business people. In New York, many of the corner grocery stores are Dominican or Arab-owned. And Dominicans also own a lot of taxi car companies. Has your cultural background influenced your business sense? Absolutely, and you’re right Dominican people are good at business. In New York, we tend to be more merchants, but the skills that I learned from our culture are fu**ing invaluable. Even just my mom buying plantains on the corner. She would constantly negotiate. My dad trained me to be really resourceful. We had so little growing up that he would teach me to make the most out of it. All these ingrained lessons from our communities were instilled in me. Now that I’m in the corporate arena I’m a beast because a lot of these kids I’m with grew up in a different life path. Now that we’re in the same rooms I find myself consistently outwitting and outmaneuvering a lot of these people because maybe they don’t have some of that cultural edge.

If you can come from a disadvantaged position and make it, you end up having such a massive edge because then you have both; street smarts and book smarts. I think of Jay-Z, he maneuvered real danger and the streets. And now for him to sit in a boardroom there is no one else in that boardroom who’s had his life experience, which makes it even more valuable.


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Posting this again for #MondayMotivation cause it gets me so HYPE. 🔥🔥 ⠀ -⠀ HUSTLE premiers on @VICELAND February 10th. ⠀ -⠀ Tag a friend who should see this!👇🏾👇🏾 ⠀ -⠀ #hustlevice #entrepreneur #hustle #viceland #vice #xt4

A post shared by John Henry (@johnhenrystyle) on Jan 14, 2019 at 5:25am PST

What do you think is the biggest risk you can take in your career now? The biggest risk right now that you can take as a business person is to take no risk. If you default to just doing things the way you’ve done them you will go out of business because everything is changing so fast. The media is being consumed differently. Weed is being legalized, retail is going out of business. The mall that used to be so hot is now being replaced by Amazon. Lawmaking and policy-making are now being shifted by artificial intelligence, cars are going to be self-driven. Every industry is changing so much, so the most dangerous risk you can take is not doing anything different.

I love risks because with high risks comes high reward. And it doesn’t always work out and that’s the scary part about it. I’m just focusing on leveraging this opportunity. My biggest risks are all on the Harlem Capital side. I have a $25 million fund and we invest in women and minorities. I don’t just talk about this. We put our money where our mouth is and invest our money into companies owned by people that look like us, and that’s very risky business because a lot of businesses don’t make it.

What do you hope people in your community will take away from being on this show? I’m already starting to see the response. Dozens of people a day are reaching out to me saying, “I’m so proud just to see someone who looks like me that understands business and is on camera while helping other people.” The byproduct of this show is going to be good because people are going to have role models, they are going to see real stories of people who look like them striving to make it, and making it.

Hustle airs on Sundays at 9 p.m. EST on VICELAND. 

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Tonia Calderon

Lupe Fiasco On New World Water, And Changing The World With His Bars Before Leaving Rap Behind

Artists use terms like “deeper than rap” and “more than music” all the time to boost their authenticity points, but for Lupe Fiasco, they’re more descriptive than self-congratulatory. With nearly 15 years under his belt, Lupe has built a legitimate case as one of the top MCs of all time: classic albums (Food & Liquor, The Cool), timeless mixtapes (the Fahrenheit 1/15 series), collaborations with legends like Jay-Z, Kanye West and Snoop Dogg, one Grammy Award and a dozen nominations. And he has the respect of all of his peers, with a creative, expressionist writing style that makes his storytelling, metaphors, and punchlines stand out from the pack as fans huddle together in message boards to decipher them. As he says on the 2011 bar-fest “SLR": “I ain’t doing numbers like Anbesol, but I’m here, and I’m revered.” His first two albums use fantastical authorship to weave the tale of Michael Young History a.k.a. The Cool, a fatherless child who becomes mentored by male and female characters named The Game and The Streets before meeting his demise and rising from the dead to roam a world that has transformed after him. His 2015 masterpiece Tetsuo & Youth marveled stalwarts in Reddit and TheColi with its format to be played forward and backward (two years before Kendrick Lamar’s Pulitzer-winning DAMN got similar accolades). Drogas Wave, his most recent album and his second as an independent artist after fulfilling his tumultuous deal with Atlantic Records, tells the story of the Longchains, a group of slaves that live underwater and take down slave ships. On an episode of Joe Budden Podcast, Budden—who had just dismissed another GOAT candidate, Eminem, minutes earlier by saying “I’ve been better than you for a decade”—expressed his admiration for Carrera Lu’s pen game. “I’m appreciative that there are two percent of artists out there willing to (be this complex),” he said, describing Drogas Wave. “You’ve got to fear that mind.”

But for Lupe, it’s about more than impressing fans or his fellow rap luminaries: he wants to use his music to make the world a better place. Along with his dense, thought-provoking rhymes, he’s respected for his entrepreneurial and charitable efforts. Less than two weeks into 2019, he broadcasted his Instagram Live to show his keynote speech in a presentation from Zero Mass Water at the annual Consumer Electronics Show (CES)  in Las Vegas, Nevada. Zero Mass designed SOURCE, a hydro panel that uses only sunlight and air to make five liters of drinking water per day per home. Or, in Lupe’s words: “You never have to worry about where your water is coming from because it is coming from you.” It’s a creation just as futuristic and socially-minded as Lupe’s bars, and he’s actually helped install the panels himself in Jordan and the Philippines. He’s prepping music videos for DROGAS Wave after the album’s recent vinyl release, performing his album Food & Liquor in full at The Novo on Saturday, Feb. 23, and in recent weeks, dropping a since-deleted Instagram post with thoughtful, written out rhymes about Gucci’s controversial blackface sweater. But his investment in Zero Mass Water has him just as excited as other rappers would be about a platinum plaque. “It doesn't matter if I sell a million records. I'm cool selling five records,” Lupe insists. “But I’m going to sell five records to the five most powerful people in the world, and then we are gonna go out and partner, and change things."

In a detailed conversation with VIBE weeks before his 37th birthday, Lupe Fiasco speaks about providing new world water, music’s power to make social change, and his plans to retire from rap.


VIBE: You said in your CES speech that Yasiin Bey, formerly known as Mos Def, had a big role in how you learned that access to water was a real issue for people. Lupe Fiasco: I was in high school and I remember just getting Black On Both Sides, and that record was super pivotal for me because I was still practicing Islam, or at least trying to, to a certain degree. Mos is top 10 incredible emcee and he is able to put a really good album together. So that record, I lived with forever. That and Nas’ It Was Written were two albums that were like, this is what a rap album should sound like. It should have all these different kinds of things on it. He had the club record, the love record, the rap record, and then he had kind of the informational records, and that was the "New World Water" and "Mathematics." "New World Water" stood out because it was focused on this one subject, which I did not know too much about at that time. I was 17, 18, and it was so different from anything you hear on another rap album. It's water, but he went through all of it: politically, environmentally, socially, chemically. I think it's one of those things that only a rapper could do, or only a poet could do: take this subject and hit it in all these different areas and components. It just kind of got bookmarked in my mind: water is an issue, water's a problem, water's a right.


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Learn more & get your Source Hydropanel TODAY @ @zeromasswater 💧

A post shared by Lupe Fiasco (@lupefiasco) on Feb 1, 2019 at 7:09am PST

How did the opportunity to work with Zero Mass come up? Me and the CEO, Cody Frieson, a real good friend of mine, met through the Aspen Institute. I'm a Henry Crown Fellow and he is a Henry Crown Fellow but from a different class. The program is filled with CEOs, entrepreneurs, super successful individuals, activists, a few artists. You’re around all these different folks and different people from different walks of life. Cody came from the energy space––battery, solar and stuff like that––and I think he had sold his company and was starting a new company, which was Zero Mass. We were hosting these dinners around the country. Cody happened to be in Chicago and I just happened to be in Chicago, we connected and got to talking and it went into music real fast. His favorite rapper is Tech N9ne. So we’re sitting in this mansion with all these kind of illuminati types, with his phone playing his favorite Tech N9ne records. We just kind of connected and traded.

When he first told me about Zero Mass, it was kind of unbelievable. He created this device that pulls water out of thin air and only uses solar power to do so. It's like a solar panel that doesn't make energy, it makes water. That's fascinating, I'm in. At the time it was very early so he was looking for just friends and family investors. I invested, I wished I would have invested more. But I invested and it went further, he asked me to come on with a few other fellows to his advisory board to the company. I came in really to just articulate communication internally, what's the best way to frame the message, to talk about the product...just advise him on how to talk about it really simply. Our first advisory board meeting, the first thing I did was play "New World Water." I was just sitting there amidst all these luminaries from the water space, from the finance space, from the tech space, from the invention, 3D printing space, and I come in and play Mos Def. (Laughs)

What is it like to bump hip-hop in a board meeting like that? I've always looked at hip-hop and rap as bigger than just entertainment. Because of the music I make, I might not get invited to your barbeque, but I can get invited to the Aspen Institute, or get invited to a board meeting for a Fortune 500 company. People are super interested in storytelling and narratives, and that was one of the reasons we started SOSA, Society Of Spoken Art—to see where we could take rap beyond the entertainment space. For the past five years, we have been landing, been invited to, or been a part of so many crazy spots and initiatives. Cody Frieson, who is the CEO of Zero Mass, is this super smart material scientist, Ph.D. at MIT professor, tens and tens of patents under his belt, whose favorite rapper is Tech N9ne. He will sit there and bring his phone out in an Illuminati meeting, and we are sitting there bumping Tech N9ne when people are talking about the effects on Plato on the world or whatever. There is a core of respect for the ability to tell a story and take a lot of data and put in a very cogent way, in a very direct way. Rap, by nature, compresses data at a rate that a long book wouldn't be able to do. Rap gives you the gist of the story, and the emotion, and the feeling, and the directive, and probably the solution, all within three minutes. That is a value to a lot of different people, a lot of different projects, in these cases a lot of different companies. So for me now, it's not really a surprise. If you just look at it entertainment-wise, it's cool I get to play some rap for some white people, but if you looking at it deeper than that from a “let's build a business” or add value to a major social movement, that is more phenomenal.

Does Socially Conscious Music actually work?

— “DROGAS WAVE” NOW PLAYING (@LupeFiasco) January 10, 2019

You recently tweeted, "does socially conscious music actually work?" When you speak about social issues in your music, do you create with the intent to spark change, or are you just rapping about things that you’re passionate about? I think it is a little bit of both, and more. I want to take this subject that nobody is talking about and be recognized for that, so my ego is satisfied. I'm the first one to plant a flag on the moon. But those other two points, there is intentionality in it, whether you want it to be or not. I come into any subject knowing that no matter what I talk about is going to have some effect, in addition to whether I want to have that effect or not, positive or negative. It's just being careful about which issues you talk about. You know they are gonna have some type of reaction. Is it going to lead to a complete redefining or restructuring or retooling of that space that you are pointing at? Probably not. That is going to take a little bit more than music.

There is a whole broader kind of set of things that are going to occur, or need to occur, beyond just talking about something, to the point to where it achieves a certain level of, oh we did it based on this criterion. We got this dude or this woman to change their opinion, or we got this person thrown out of office, or we got this person to pay a fine, or we got this person put in jail. Or in some cases, we got this person assassinated. To be honest, some of those political movements and social movements in certain parts of the world, there is death at the end of it. Trying to get people locked up, go to jail, and get the death penalty type situations. If you take a place like Iraq, like Saddam Hussein, or Libya. For some of these things, was music a part of that process? Probably. It may not have been rap. It might have been the songs that the protectors or that the soldiers or the protestors sang at night. But it was definitely an impact, even if it was the glue to bind people together, to get them singing on the same tune, literally and figuratively. In my relationship to socially conscious music, because of the circles that I walk in, I am able to influence industrialists and social planners, people who plan society. All you need is a couple of people because those are the people who are writing the code for society or writing the narrative for the next 100 years.

When I asked that question, the response that I got was people's individual anecdotes about how specific songs had changed their point of view or informed their point of view. You got kids in high school listening to "Conflict Diamonds" (from Lupe Fiasco’s Fahrenheit 1/15 Part II: Revenge of the Nerds mixtape) who say they are never going to take part in the diamond industry because of that song. So maybe when they get married or get engaged, they are not going to give a diamond ring, they might give something else of value or even look beyond that. You want to change the world and you want to help in certain aspects, but at the same time too, no matter what you do, it's gonna have an effect on somebody, somewhere.

A lot of rappers who are from places like where you are from, if they’re involved in charitable issues or social issues, it's usually feeding the homeless, sending kids to college, and anti-violence initiatives. You’re providing water, you’re contributing to fledgling tech companies. Do you think that artists need to do more to see other areas that they can contribute? They are not donations first, it's not charity. I have a charitable piece that we do through MURAL, which is something that my sisters run, Magnifying Urban Realities And Lives is what she calls it, it used to be the Lupe Fiasco Foundation. We try to do it a little bit more of a structural way, an institutional way. We try and see how can we change the circumstances of the nutrition, or the food deserts in the hood so that we can have a solution that will last 100 years as opposed to something that’s just going to be last for Thanksgiving.

People just need to do what they are good at. If you are good at giving out turkeys, then do that. If you are good at giving haircuts to the homeless, do that. if you are good at giving out cell phones to people so that they have a contact number if they are going out to a job interview, then do that. If you are good at donating suits for business meetings, do that. If you're good at letting people sleep in your house until they get on their own two feet and get their opportunity started on their own two feet and get their opportunity started on their own and have a home base, then do that. If you can invest in tech companies which impact developing economies, then do that. It's what you are good at and everybody's good at something, so it doesn’t create this stigma where “if I am not doing this then this is not valuable, so I’m not gonna do anything until I am able to do that.” That’s not cool, and you’re actually hurting people who can actually benefit from that particular individual.

Challenge yourself if you have opportunities to do it bigger, be in a space where you can leverage more people or more dollars or more odds on a specific project. Challenge yourself to step up or level up. Do something like how Chance The Rapper, who is like “yo forget going to try and raise money for these schools, I am just gonna give the schools the money myself.” You would be surprised how active people in the hip-hop space are when it comes to whether it be a charitable thing or an impact investment type kind of portfolio. There are a lot of people doing a lot of stuff, but that does not necessarily mean that they are gonna talk about it. I am actually very quiet about the stuff I do. The reason that I am doing this interview––even though you are a cool guy––soon as you [reached out], I showed this the CEO of Zero Mass, I was like, “you want to do this?” He was like “yeah.” For me, it brings exposure to the things that help the world. Zero Mass is one of those things which could fundamentally change the world, as opposed to yeah, “I gave out seven coats last week on Skid Row last week and took a picture with a bunch of people.” That's not my style, you will see that there is a lot of people in this space that this isn't their style either. But they are doing massive amounts of what they can.

Right. And then to add on to that, everything is not about charity either, sometimes it's about giving somebody advice. Sometimes it’s showing out and speaking to a group of kids about your experiences. That may do more than paying people's tuition. You never know how much power is in the minute or two minutes of stopping and talking to somebody about something and changing their trajectory in life, because they respect your music or like your video or like how you dress.

Speaking of advice, I think that people see you as a leader in terms of making the world a better place with your artistry. Do other artists ever hit you up for advice about what they can get involved in? Not really. I am not like the good guy, I am not here to make friends. (Laughs) I think I said that in a rap: "We ain't start the revolution just to make friends." So I am not the uncle type, that’s “yeah, come and talk to me about whatever you got going.” There is a little bit of a challenge to be one of Lupe Fiasco's homies. (Laughs)

I’m the most blackballed rapper in the history of rap. 🤣

Lotta enemigas...

— “DROGAS WAVE” NOW PLAYING (@LupeFiasco) February 11, 2019

It's hard being a Lupe fan. Yeah, it’s hard being a Lupe fan. I don't say that gesturally; that’s integral, that’s a real thing. I have an inner circle of people who are super influential, super focused and super keen on trying to change the world. As much as I can speak to them and rock with them, I never had that (in music). It seemed like some of the relationships in the music business can be superficial sometimes. Me being the black sheep and getting blackballed, and all this other stuff. When me and Obama had our situation, people stopped picking up the phone and kind of stepped back, which is cool––do that, because I don't know where this is going to go either. (Editor’s note: in an interview on CBS’ What’s Trending with Shira Lazar in 2011, Lupe called Obama “the biggest terrorist,” elaborating, “the foreign policies that we have in place in different countries inspire people to become terrorists.”) But you level up because that opens up a door. That door closes, but the door that opens up is something like the Aspen Institute or the CEO of Heineken, and now these are my friends. It's gonna affect change on a much much higher level in a much much more direct way with the folks who actually have their hands on the levers of social change, social direction, and social power.

But with that said, anybody can still walk up to me on the street at any given time and if they are brave enough to come up and approach me, I’ll have discourse with a stranger. I always preface it with, “I don’t know what I am talking about, but at the end of the day, it's you. You have to get out there and do it, but here is my two cents and my point of view.” I have given out many books on the low to folks, I have given many conversations to people you wouldn't expect me to be cool with, who we are sitting down and having jam sessions about the nature of the world and the future of black folks, or the future of humanity.

Right after your speech at CES, Flint Mayor Karen Weaver spoke. Did you get to speak to her much personally? Did you learn anything about the Flint water crisis that you didn’t know before you spoke to her? Yeah, we had a private thing later that night that Cody moderated and really got into some deep topics and some other thoughts and ideas. But my bass player Bubby was from Flint, and my old assistant was from Flint, so I've always had a relationship to Flint. I had already been to places Africa with my homie Kenna, and was in Tanzania, and seen issues with water that looked like chocolate milk. Going there and working with Proctor and Gamble at the time, they had like this tablet that would kill all the stuff that was in the water, and you had to strain out all of the parasites and the worms. I've already seen the water crisis in a place where there was no infrastructure, so when the thing with Flint happened I already had a ton of information about what that means. Even as a kid living in Chicago, we sometimes had to boil our water for whatever reason. I didn't know why but I knew my mom would be boiling water on the stove. My father is a survivalist and a special forces green beret with survival training and all that stuff, so we already had this relationship with water. Coming out of Africa and having the Flint crisis happen, you can just see and be like, “okay I know what that is.” But the extent of it is so crazy. You have this city-wide crisis, this state of emergency. [Weaver] wanted to declare a national disaster, but she couldn't because in order to claim a disaster it has to be natural. I think she just called it an emergency; they can't say a disaster because it was man-made.

She went though a history of what happened and what they were doing. What I didn't know was where they were, and that's why she came and cleared it up in her talk at CES. People are still saying, “Flint doesn’t have water,” but that is because they are replacing all the pipes. You still can't really drink the stuff yet because the pipes are not, we are still putting the stuff in. The EPA is still making them drink bottled water, simply because the whole thing isn’t set up and in place, but they will be done with that soon. She wanted to dispel some of the myths and misunderstanding about what the state of affairs is now. So I got a deeper insight into that, and just a deeper insight into her as a leader and the type of person that she is and her style of leadership and what her real goal is, and an understanding of through crisis, there is an opportunity for benefit. Flint’s been down for a while, even prior to the crisis, for various reasons.

People focus on Flint, but Flint is part of a small piece of a wider problem. There are cities all across this country that potentially can have the same issues, and are suffering from the same issues. These antiquated water systems and lead in the pipes and then privatization of the water supply. They used to get their water from Lake Huron because Michigan sits on the five Great Lakes. It's one of the largest bodies of freshwater in the world, and you have Flint right there and they have to get their water from the Flint River for various reasons of politrickery and privatization. Flint actually used to sell water, and it turned around because they got their rights taken away, and they have to get their water from the Flint River. They wound up buying water from people they used to sell water to, for eight times the price. So it's kind of like all these interesting stats, these local stats that only a mayor of a town would be intimately aware of, that we as the laymen folk wouldn't really know. What came out of all of this was a partnership between Flint, Michigan and Zero Mass. Which is the core of the relationship and why we’re all there, was to make sure it never happens again. Zero Mass is the technology that can put that into effect and make that come true.


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A post shared by Lupe Fiasco (@lupefiasco) on Dec 27, 2018 at 2:33pm PST

I worked in Flint from 2012-2016 and I am from Saginaw, Mich., which is about 45 minutes away, and the craziest thing to me was that when they made the switch to the Flint River, everyone saw the difference instantly and they were told that the water was fine. I don't want to be prejudicial about it, but even putting myself on as an example, I mean we really don't understand water. In terms of what the grid, the city, the municipal factors, the private forces that are behind us getting the water that comes out of our taps, what they are willing to subject us to. Like parts per billion and this additive versus that additive, and what the tolerances are, and what they are willing to accept as pullable water for the short term. You can see why people would retreat to bottled water and things like that because it is the safer alternative, but then that has its own set of hidden costs and consequences, that are an existential threat that with polluting the ocean. Our relationship to water is so fragile and so misunderstood, and we just let it be that. “Okay it's cool.” So people will say “yeah, the water is good to drink because the water won't kill you in a few years. It will take a couple decades, but as of right now you are good.”

Pipes are being replaced now, so what is the nature between the relationship between Flint and Zero Mass? They are going to announce in a couple weeks what the actual details of the partnership are, but it is definitely bringing Zero Mass technology to a place like Flint, similar to projects we do in Africa, projects we do in Mexico, projects we do now starting all over the world. We are in 15 countries and five continents, various climates and conditions. But bringing that as the solution to drinking water, specifically. So you never have to worry about where your water is coming from because it is coming from you. It’s something that a source panel is making on your roof every day so you don't have to worry about pipes and being connected to infrastructure and the fragility of the infrastructure and the quality of the water and privatization and this, that and all of the other conflicting parts that go along with it.


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“...And that mean they Down” The only “uncirculated” Manillas, meaning ones to the best of my knowledge that have not been traded for slaves, I’ve been able to find are those pulled from the Slave Ship Douro. The wreck sits about 30 meters below the surface off the isle of Scilly in the UK. It sank in 1843. Its crew and cargo of trade goods & manillas never made it to Africa to trade. I like to think that the water baptized and purified the Douro Manillas and reset their original purpose to one of freedom as opposed to captivity. I had one of the Douro Manillas in my collection cleaned and molded and created new ones off of that mold. At a couple of my shows I lead a “secret service” on stage for the Diaspora that were in the crowd. They know what happened 🤫😏...however it involved buying back ones past with the original Manilla then buying ones future with the newly minted Manilla. I like to think of it as OUR Diasporian crucifix. An instrument originally used for inflicting pain and suffering reframed to inspire hope and glory just by its presence. Reminding one of the pain but also the power. From limitation to liberation. 🌊

A post shared by Lupe Fiasco (@lupefiasco) on Oct 26, 2018 at 9:05am PDT

The concept behind your new album Drogas Wave is the story of the Longchains, former slaves who live under the ocean while sinking slave ships. Is the album connected with your work in the water space at all? Not directly. (Laughs) I think that because I am an Aquarius, water is apart of my whole deal, but no, not really. If you saw the talk I did at CES, I did this presentation of the manilla, which is on the cover of Drogas Wave. The manilla became for me this talisman for how I kind of view my life and how I approach things, and I always keep it with me and tell a story to people as much as I can. I've done it at MIT, and I've done it now at CES, and I've done it on stage. We need to be careful about the things that we invest in, and the cost and consequences of the things that we do. The manilla is kind of an example of that: the complicity, and endurance, and commandeering something negative and pulling it into something positive, etc. I want to be a part of things that make the world a better place, and here is physical motivation and a physical reminder of what the world's expectations were of my ancestors. And then how that reverberates through time because we don’t understand our place in the world.

We constantly let people tell us where our place in the world is. Whether it be this mythical history of Africa that informs us or this very racist segregational third class citizen mentality that exists in the U.S. We as the diaspora, when do we decide to map out our own futures and write our own destinations? That is what the manilla represents to me, this past, and then when you see the talk you see that I have a new one, a flashy new one that’s remolded off of the old one. You take this old one and we buy back our past, and with this new one, we buy back our future. We buy our future, we define who we are. Zero Mass is a part of that. Yeah, I am a rapper and I'll entertain and I'll come and play with you, but I also want to be a force in the industry and the space to change the world. I also want to be working with samurai swords, and I also want to play video games. I want to be a nerd, I don't want to be everybody's friend. I want to define what I am. It doesn’t matter if I sell a million records, I'm cool selling five records. But I am going to sell five records to the five most powerful people in the world and then we are gonna go out and partner and change things, and not wait for the Grammys to tell me that it was cool, or wait for VIBE to tell me it was nice. I am not interested in linearity anymore. As many points as I can hit, as many times, with as many different possibilities for success so be it. If people don't get it cool, on to the next.

At what point did you stop being concerned with linearity? It was probably Tetsuo & Youth, because we were right back to a point where Atlantic was not gonna put the album out unless you had these types of singles. “You got to have a ‘Show Goes On.' You gotta have an ‘Old School Love.’" I'm like all right, it's gonna ruin the album because it doesn’t fit. But then it became, oh wow they’re not gonna promote this album anyway. That was one of the guarantees Lyor Cohen gave me when I didn’t sign my 360 deal. “You know if you don't sign a 360 deal, we can't guarantee we are gonna promote your album.” Those were the meetings I was having at Atlantic. I was like holy sh*t, what world are we living in? So I just kind of knew, all right f**k it. You're not gonna promote it anyway, so I am just gonna make the album that I want to make, that people can't understand, because linearity is not gonna work. If I do all these records I am going to sacrifice my creative intentions. I’m 34, I don't know how many years more I can do this, being the guinea pig for your pop-crossover rap whatever and get no publishing from it. So nah, I'm just going to make this record. Then it became abandon that linearity, they are not going to put the album out, in walks Anonymous and threatens to hack the label. And it gets lauded as one best albums of that year. Didn't sell a bunch of records, didn't press up any vinyls, didn't promote it as promised, but it still established like “holy sh*t, this is one of the best albums that came out that year.” “Mural” is still looked at as one of the epitomes of just blacking out with bars. But it's completely nonlinear and then it was like its okay I'm comfortable doing that. Now I am completely comfortable as an artist putting out whatever the f**k I want to put out. Whoever gets it, they get it. Whoever don't, don't. But in the meantime, here is Zero Mass.

A while ago you said that you were planning to leave rap soon, after your next album Skulls. Are you looking forward to dedicating a lot more time to these sort of issues after you are done? I will always be fighting to make the world a better place so that will never stop, even if I decide to continue to make music and stuff like that. I’ll still make music, I just don't feel like I have a career in the way in the way that I did before. Me and my friend were having a conversation about it and we went through this whole plan of how to rebuild, where I needed to be and all this other stuff. Play nice with the press, and blah, blah, blah. When we got to the end of it, it was like, do I have genuine interest to do that? Now that we got everything on the table, the whole plan, and then the sub-plan and then Plan C, and all of that, do I want to do that? Because what's at the end of that? Is it another Ferrari? Is it another house? Do I need another Playstation? Do I need more shoes? Like what is at the end of it? Specifically with music, what is the promise of music at the end of it, exposing yourself to all of that madness? All that madness is what it takes to have a career. I just felt like my time is up, in terms of music in a commercial sense. But I still got whole albums, that are just kind of sitting, for me, that I sit and play or they’re half-recorded and I sit and have to rap it to myself that will probably never come out.

What I feel like I have done in the musical space, I have set my example. I’m good. Nobody can ever take that away, you can argue it as much as you want but it's there. I will never have the impact of this person or that person, but that’s for technical reasons. My manager has been in prison since my first album came out, I’ve never switched managers. So Chill's been in prison since '03, came out for a couple years to fight the case, and he got sentenced a couple days after The Cool came out. (Editor's note: Lupe shouts out his manager/mentor, Charles "Chilly" Patton, on "Free Chilly" from The Cool.) So since '08 to now, my management is in prison doing everything over the phone. So just imagine those limitations when you are trying to negotiate a deal from jail and they lock the prisons down for three weeks, versus having somebody that is free and can run around 24/7 and make all the calls and go here and go there. Chill has probably seen two or three of my concerts, ever. So those are the limitations that are happening in the Lupe space, and we still succeed. There is a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes, a lot of battles that I fight because of the views that I take. And you see it now, being a supporter of Palestine is a career death sentence, and I have been about that my whole career. Speaking truth to power and all that stuff that comes with consequence, it’s something that is not taken lightly. But with that said we still have great success. Great opportunities in music, still putting out great music at least from my point of view, still putting out impactful music. And as long as I feel like doing something, I can always do it. I own my own studio there is no limitations, I’m completely independent, so if I want to put out an album tomorrow I could. But am I rushing toward that lifestyle again? Not necessarily.

I had no idea Chill was still managing you man, that is crazy. I’m a loyal dude, man.Chill has done a lot for me so we are family from the streets to the music business, to the corporate business, everything planned. If it was not for him I would not have this entrepreneurial [spirit]. He made me become vice president when I was 19. I wanted to just be the artist rapping in the studio doing that. He was like nah you need to come to this meeting and sit down with Lyor, you need to come to this meeting and sit down with L.A Reid. L.A. Reid is like, “is this an audition?” Chill is like no, this is my business partner. “But he's 19,” and he's like “yeah, I know.” Without him, you probably would not see me on stage at Zero Mass because I wouldn't know how to navigate that space, I wouldn’t feel comfortable around men in power, women in power, CEOs, or executives and stuff like that because I had never been one, I had always been the artist. There is no way to pay that back, so my loyalty to him is kind of unquestioned, and whatever that means for monetary success is negligible.


This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

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