The Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle, released a new episode of her Archetypes podcast on Tuesday (Oct. 25), welcoming actresses Issa Rae and Ziwe. The three women sat down to discuss stereotypes often placed on Black women, including being considered “angry,” “particular” and “on edge.”
Insecure creator Rae shared that after being in the entertainment industry for a few years, she’s learned to not be afraid of being called a bi**h. “To me, that means I have a sense of what I want,” Issa said.
She also added that she was once called “particular” by a friend, but instead of taking the critique as an insult, she considered it a compliment.
“I’m particular,” Markle agreed. “A. I think a high tide raises all ships — we’re all going to succeed, so let’s make sure it’s really great because it’s a shared success for everybody. But I also know that I will find myself cowering and tiptoeing into a room. I don’t know if you ever do that, the thing that I find the most embarrassing — when you’re saying a sentence and the intonation goes up like it’s a question. And you’re like, ‘Oh my God, stop!’ Stop whispering and tiptoeing around and say what it is you need. You’re allowed to set a boundary, you’re allowed to be clear. It does not make you demanding, it does not make you difficult. It makes you clear.”
The 41-year-old then asked Issa, “Was there a point in your life, and maybe it still happens to you now, because of the archetypes, especially as a Black woman, do you feel that you’re allowed to be angry in certain moments?”
“Absolutely not,” the Rap Sh!t creator responded. “Because I can’t lose my cool, I can’t do that, especially as a Black woman, but also just even as a public figure now. Because people are looking for ways to justify their perception of you. That doesn’t mean I don’t get angry. That might mean that I will vent my frustrations to someone that I trust, get it out of my system and then go in fix mode. And I think even personality wise, I’m always like, I don’t want to sit in my anger too long anyway because what does that do? I want to work on fixing something, but I want to be allowed to have that emotion because it’s a natural…like, it’s an emotion.”
Reflecting on her days as an actress too, Markle praised Issa for the multilayered caricatures she’s created through the roles on Insecure. Markle described the characters as “nuanced, layered, multifaceted women.”
She added, “I mean, I remember when I was auditioning, the idea of even Black roles, I remember those casting sheets where the description of the character, she always had to have an edge or an attitude. I didn’t even think about it.”
As Nigerian-American comedian Ziwe Fumudoh joined Markle, the two discussed the Duchess’ unearthed genealogy. Markle revealed to Ziwe that, “[I] just had my genealogy done a couple years ago.” Markle learned that she was 43% Nigerian.
“I’m going to start to dig deeper into all this because anybody that I’ve told, especially Nigerian women, are like ‘What!'” she added.
“This is huge for our community,” Ziwe commented excitedly. “No, honestly, you do look like a Nigerian, you look like my Aunt Uzo. So this is great.”
The 30-year-old Baited host then disclosed to Markle how interviewers have told her that they’re “terrified” of speaking with her. “I’m like, ‘Oh my God, that hurts my feelings,’ Ziwe expressed. “I’m a sensitive Pisces. Like, I don’t want you to be scared of me. That’s not my goal.”
Ziwe explained to Markle how her demeanor came to be.
“I grew up with culturally conservative parents who had a really like strict understanding of women, what women did and how they lived and they cooked and cleaned, etc. And so, from that understanding, I also exist in society and I know what the expectations are of women there as well. And these things correlate.”
Speaking on her persona she has to put on for TV, she shared, “And so to be the character of Ziwe that is brash and rude and thoughtful is in direct opposition to what a woman should be publicly, according to sexism.”
Take a listen to the full Archetypes episode titled “Upending the ‘Angry Black Woman’ Myth with Issa Rae & Ziwe” below.